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“Updating” map data deletes it?

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  • #4013
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    Sorry to be so obtuse, but something has just happened and I’d really like to know what, and how to fix it.

    Two nights ago, my copy of PocketEarth alerted me that new “map data” was available, and asked me if I wanted to download it. I allowed it to. (Note: I didn’t make notes, and don’t now know what was “updated.”) Now, my map of Maryland can’t zoom in, and trying to use it gives me error messages about having to “download map data” and not being able to download data because an Internet connection can’t be found.

    I’m at a complete loss.

    1. Why has updating wiped out maps I spent hours downloading a month or two ago?
    2. Do I have to download these maps again?
    3. How can I identify which maps have been wiped out?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much for helping an old, confused enthusiast.

    Yours truly,
    Bucky Edgett

    #4435
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    I will try to figure out which of the many maps I have need re-downloading. Thanks.

    #4436
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    I will try to figure out which of the many maps I have need re-downloading. Thanks.

    #4441
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    I would still appreciate a list of which maps were recently updated, so that perhaps I would not have to redownload all of my maps all over again.

    Is anyone at GeoMagik reading this forum? Thanks!

    #4442
    GeoMagikGeoMagik
    Admin
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 796

    Hi Bucky,
    We are reading the forum! ­čÖé

    Map data updates require all local maps to be redownloaded as updates cover the entire Earth. Do you have Maryland as a favorite destination? If so, it will be redownloaded automatically during the update.

    From your question, it sounds like you might be relying on “automatic” map downloads which happen automatically for each “map” you look at. A better solution is just to download all of Maryland by setting it as a favorite destination. To do this, go to destinations, search for “Maryland” and select “Maryland, United States”. Then you can click the blue button at the top-right of the screen to select it on the map. Now you can press the star at the top-right to save Maryland as a favorite destination. You will be asked if you want to download the maps for Maryland.

    #4444
    GeoMagikGeoMagik
    Admin
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 796

    If you do have Maryland as a favorite destination you should be able to find it under “My Dests” and check its download status. If it is downloaded you should see a green star there. If not, you can download it from this screen.

    #4445
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    Thank you so much for your help. I’ve been looking deeper into my copy of Pocket Earth and KIND OF figuring this out! But it’s still confusing, and very much counter-intuitive.

    I was not “relying on” the automatic downloads that happen when I zoom in on a particualr location. Quite the opposite!  I thought and expected that I had Maryland (State, USA) as one of my many Favorite Destinations. When the Map Data Update occurred, I then had no –I will say, not knowing the correct terminology for Pocket Earth– local/street level map data for Maryland. “Maryland” was definitely NOT “redownloaded automatically.”

    Which for me, with my terrible limited data restrictions from my ISP, was probably a good thing in the interim! But still, it did not happen automatically.

    I have seen, just in the last half-hour or so, before I came back to this forum, that several of my Favorite Destinations are no longer “Saved for offline use” according to the My Destinations list/screen/window/palette. (All of them are states in the United States.) I see that I can use the little blue arrow icons to re-download these Destinations, and I’m doing that now, during my Free Download Period, so that I do not exceed my data cap.

    So this whole system has confused me, but I now see how to work it. In closing, I’ll say that I would have appreciated a notice being given by the app that some of my offline data was going to be erased/replaced, and some instructions as to how to fix that!

    Thanks for your help!

    #4459
    GeoMagikGeoMagik
    Admin
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 796

    Thanks for the feedback!  The place maps download/update should have started automatically although it can sometimes take up to 1 minute before starting while PocketEarth analyzes what data needs updating. If it takes longer than this and provided a network connection is available, then it may indicate a bug in the latest version. We will investigate this.

    We will also try to improve the update system so that it says how much data will need to be downloaded for the update to complete. This way you will have the option to wait until a more convient time to allow it.
    Note that currently our update system is all or nothing as their can be complex cross dependancies in the way our data is packaged (which helps enable our overall small sizes). If an Update is available and lists “Maps & Guides” as being updated, then generally it will mean all map data has been updated.  We would like to implement “differential updating” to allow very tiny map updates, but at the moment we have limited resources and this is more of a long term goal.
    #4461
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    Thanks for considering these points. If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask a question to try to clarify and understand exactly what was happening! Because, I hope to be able to use PocketEarth entirely offline while traveling in places where I will not have a data connection!

    1. I had many maps fully downloaded, including Wikipedia articles, etc. and saved for offline use.
    2. One of these maps –and I am using this strictly as an example– was for the state of Maryland, USA.
    3. The map data update occured.
    4. After the update, Maryland was no longer Saved For Offline Use. I had to redownload it all over again, apparently from scratch, as if I had never downloaded it.

    Is it correct to assume the map data used by PE comes in two “levels:” Broadrange and Local (my terms, of course)? Because it seems to me that the update installed new Broadrange data for Maryland, but did not include the Local level (or the Guides).

    If something along these lines is the case, this seems to me to be not the best system. But I may have done something to stop or block a complete replacement of both levels of data during the update.

    On the other hand, if it is normal behavior to replace a Saved For Offline map with only Broadrange data, it would be nice to know that was happening. Thanks again for your help.

    #4462
    GeoMagikGeoMagik
    Admin
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 796

    Our data is divided into multiple datasets, each covering a range of scales/zoom levels. The lowest scale data covering zoom levels 0 to 6 is very small and we bundle it as part of the required data so that it is always available. This data can also be replaced by an Update, but not very often as this data doesn’t need to change much. The rest of the zoom levels (7 to 19) are covered by other datasets which is downloaded dynamically as needed to draw the current map view or as determined by the saved Destinations.


    But to be clear, what you reported absolutely should not happen, and would seem to be a bug though we have been unable to reproduce it yet. All map data for all zoom levels for all your Destinations that you chose to download should be automatically re-downloaded after an update if that data was changed and deleted as a result of the Update. In that case, the green star items become yellow star (Downloading) until they are again cached on the device and turn back to green stars.

    The only time a Destination should ever change from green star (Saved for Offline Use) to a red star (Not Cached) is if you use the ‘Settings > Data Cache > Map Data > Delete All Maps’ option, or if you canceled an in-progress Destinations download.

    Its possible what you experienced was a bug related to the v1.3 app update rather than just the data update alone.  Do you know if you had updated from v1.2.2 or an older version?   A new map data update is again available now (we update map data about once a month), we would be interested to know if you experience this issue again, though maybe you don’t want to use the bandwidth to do another update now.
    #4464
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    I can’t thank you enough for your continued help and your perfect and detailed explanations. This is incredibly thoughtful service for such an inexpensive App! Wonderful!

    It’s almost certain that I “canceled an in-progress Destinations download” because of my realization that the Update would exceed my data cap.

    However, I later restarted the Update during my free download period, and it completed “successfully” according to the App. I use the scare-quotes because of course, in my case, the Update did not “successfully” re-download my Saved for Offline Use Destinations.

    1. I’m not sure/can’t definitely remember the sequence of events, but I’d say…
    1a. I purchased an earlier version.
    1b. I downloaded and saved Destinations.
    1c. I upgraded to v1.3.
    1d. I Updated Map Data with the results we’ve been discussing.
    However, I also canceled the 1d Update.

    I will certainly Update again tonight (tomorrow morning) and take some notes on what happens. See next post!

    #4465
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    I might not be able to Update tonight, but certainly in a day or so. In the meantime, here’s another point to consider. I cannot remember exactly what was happening during the Update when I canceled it. I note that in your post you mention “canceled an in-progress Destinations download.

    Might there be a difference/small bug in PocketEarth Update behavior depending on what was being downloaded when I cancelled? Remember that in my case, I definitely cancelled, but then later restarted and supposedly finished. Yet Destinations were not completely updated by the restarted Update. This gets complicated, but to completely test you would have to try different types of interruptions/cancellations…

    1. Have some saved Destinations, of course, with complete data for all scales/levels.
    2. Have an Update that includes data for both the Destinations and other maps.
    3. Cancel the Update during a time when Destinations are being Updated, then restart it.
    4. Check Destinations.
    5. Cancel the Update during a time when something other than Destinations are being Updated, then restart it.
    6. Check Destinations.
    7. Compare results of (4) and (6).

    Just a thought!

    #4466
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    OK, all worked as hoped. The initial Required Data Update took about three seconds. Then, the grind began.

    Every single one of my Saved Destinations was marked with a yellow star. PocketEarth automatically began redownloading them at 2:20 a.m. local time. At 7:30 (a half hour after my free download period ended) PE was still downloading the last yellow-starred map, France, and I had to cancel that. I had 16% of my download allowance remaining for the day; the 70% of France remaining would have caused me to be penalized for exceeding my data cap. Whew!

    So, although it works as expected, I’m going to have to rethink my use of the app. Obviously I cannot have all the Destinations saved I would like to, vector data or not!

    #4467
    GeoMagikGeoMagik
    Admin
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 796

    Thanks for trying the latest update and I am glad to hear it worked as designed this time! It sounds like it was most likely the canceling of the updates that caused your Destinations to be marked red and not downloaded later.  We will work on making this process more clear, at minimum by giving the update size before committing to it.

    Though we managed to get our map data down to about 40% the size of our competitors, which has helped enable us to offer whole country downloads, the vector data can still be quite large.  It would be really great to have “differential compression” updates so you only have to download the actual stuff that has changed, but its a bit complicated to implement, and at the moment we are swamped with other big feature requests like topographic maps, iCloud sync, and offline routing.
    If you want to cache a lot of places though, I might just suggest you that you don’t do the in-app data updates as often. We try to offer frequent updates especially for our users contributing to the OSM project who like to see their changes quickly in the app, but for most people I think updating every 2-4 months is enough.
    Thanks again for the detailed feedback and we hope you enjoy continued use of our product!

    #4480
    BuckyEBuckyE
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 286

    Oh, yes, I’m enjoying PocketEarth very much. If topographic maps could possibly be done, please don’t worry about “differential compression”! Topographic maps! Shaded relief! Yes, yes yes!

    I can see that given my ISP and data caps –which are terrible, worse than anyone else’s– I may want to rethink my methods. Perhaps a less frequent update, or perhaps just not trying to keep so many large, country-wide maps on my iPad.

    Thank you very much for your continued and patient help.

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